super trawler thread

9045 Views 45 Replies 9 Participants Last post by in rod we trust, Sep 12, 2012

in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · Sep 4, 2012 (Edited)

where is the super trawlers thread..why was it removed as it was in the interest of the whole country.. 83,000 votes to get rid of it.. and the thread was removed..come on mods whats going on here..that's bloody rubbish

they have renamed it as the able tasman. and repainted it and now there going to be based in qld..brisbane..

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in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #21 · Sep 4, 2012

RogerDaShrubber said:
A couple of things come to mind here, firstly, a fleet of 30 trawlers is going to cause just as much damage and by catch as one big boat. Secondly it is economically unviable for a fleet of smaller ships to catch the same tonnage per season as one big boat. Lastly no one is being put out of business by this boat, because what it is catching is currently an under used resource. 5 mins on the university website and i can get to the facts on the matter.

go out to the real world and ask these fisherman if they want the quota's , see what they tell you, let them do it as they want to do it, and they are responsible with there nets. the mackreel they want to catch is what brings the other fish to the areas.
this ship just ploughs anything that's in there way, the bi product they catch just gets tossed back dead. the aussie boys have proper nets to target specific fish..and the money stay;s in australia... take away the grass that cows eat and see how long the cows last..

RogerDaShrubber

· #22 · Sep 5, 2012

in rod we trust said:
go out to the real world and ask these fisherman if they want the quota's ,

They don't. They have not met the quote in 10 years. 2100 ton was caught last year. Because where the fish are, are outside the areas that the smaller boats can operate in.

this ship just ploughs anything that's in there way, the bi product they catch just gets tossed back dead.

That is all trawling, 1 big ship makes as much dead as the 10+ ships you would rather see doing it. But, to make the same tonnage, you will need 20 smaller ships, which means more shots, more time with net in water and more destruction when compared to one larger ship.

the aussie boys have proper nets to target specific fish.

Bull****, stop living in fairy land. All trawling is the same, it indiscriminately catches everything in its path and smashes up the sea floor. Being Ausse does not change that fact.

and the money stay;s in australia.

The taxes it pays and licensing fees stay in Australia, the ship will buy supplies and fuel in Australia where is docks thus enriching the local economy of that area, it will indirectly add employment in areas of compliance and the like.

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in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #23 · Sep 5, 2012 (Edited)

RogerDaShrubber said:
They don't. They have not met the quote in 10 years. 2100 ton was caught last year. Because where the fish are, are outside the areas that the smaller boats can operate in.

That is all trawling, 1 big ship makes as much dead as the 10+ ships you would rather see doing it. But, to make the same tonnage, you will need 20 smaller ships, which means more shots, more time with net in water and more destruction when compared to one larger ship.

Bull****, stop living in fairy land. All trawling is the same, it indiscriminately catches everything in its path and smashes up the sea floor. Being Ausse does not change that fact.

The taxes it pays and licensing fees stay in Australia, the ship will buy supplies and fuel in Australia where is docks thus enriching the local economy of that area, it will indirectly add employment in areas of compliance and the like.

sure .. as i said take away the grass that feed the cows and see how long the cows last, or anything that eats grass.. all the animals will dissapear. same as this ship.. take away the bait fish then all the other fish that feed on the mackreel will dissapear.. seen that happen with my own 2 eyes in sydney 20 years ago.. they got rid of all the non resopsible trwalers.. come and have a look now .. what a difference and there are still those resonsiblr trwalers out there.

Keeper

· #24 · Sep 5, 2012

I need new front shocks for my Slash. Oops I thought this was an RC forum.

RogerDaShrubber

· #25 · Sep 5, 2012 (Edited)

in rod we trust said:
sure .. as i said take away the grass that feed the cows and see how long the cows last, or anything that eats grass.. all the animals will dissapear. same as this ship.. take away the bait fish then all the other fish that feed on the mackreel will dissapear.. seen that happen with my own 2 eyes in sydney 20 years ago.. they got rid of all the non resopsible trwalers.. come and have a look now .. what a difference and there are still those resonsiblr trwalers out there.

Do you even know what fish this boat will be fishing? All this crapping on about cows and grass, really makes it look like you have no idea about what is going on and are just making argument for the sake of hearing your own voice.

take away the bait fish then all the other fish that feed on the mackreel will dissapear

You do know, that they will be fishing blue and jack mackerel and not anchovies and pilchards.

Here, i will help you, read this: http://theconversation.edu.au/one-f...science-doesnt-support-the-super-trawler-9143 as well as the comment and discussion after the artical, and see if you can form a coherant argument based on facts, not on the hear say and voodoo that you have been using up until now.

Specifically this:

One person says opposition to it does not have a sound scientific evidence base, and one person says it does.
When this happens it's clear that both "sides" need to present more science, more evidence, and more detail, because you don't want it to just be a pointless "he says, she says" stalemate.

in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #26 · Sep 5, 2012 (Edited)

RogerDaShrubber said:
Do you even know what fish this boat will be fishing? All this crapping on about cows and grass, really makes it look like you have no idea about what is going on and are just making argument for the sake of hearing your own voice.

You do know, that they will be fishing blue and jack mackerel and not anchovies and pilchards.

Here, i will help you, read this: http://theconversation.edu.au/one-f...science-doesnt-support-the-super-trawler-9143 as well as the comment and discussion after the artical, and see if you can form a coherant argument based on facts, not on the hear say and voodoo that you have been using up until now.

that link is more in my favour

what do you think all the fish out there eat , maccas , they eat those fish mainly.. take away there feed then you take away the rest of the fish that eat them.

in sydney we had bait fish everywhere .. the un resoposinle trawlers scooped them all up 20+ years ago any schools that came thru were wiped out.. the bays and outer reefs were a baron land,, since they brought this buy back scheeme. 20-years later these fish are back an have brought back game fish and normal plate fish that the average joe blo with his boat can go out and catch.. try doing that 20 years ago..a sustainable fishing program is good for all ask anybody who goes out there fishing even the trawlers that still do, they all say it..

go look up what baron land this vessel has left b ehind in europe and afrika..why do you think they have banned this vessel and others like it in those waters

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RogerDaShrubber

· #27 · Sep 5, 2012

in rod we trust said:
what do you think all the fish out there those fish mainly.. take away there feed then you take away the rest of the fish that eat them

THREAD CLOSED. You Lose.

in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #28 · Sep 5, 2012

no... we all will lose when we have to buy imported fish from countries with no quality control

RogerDaShrubber

· #29 · Sep 5, 2012

stevo1957 said:
It was "bloody rubbish" all right as you were one of the major contributors to it being removed due to abuse served up to other contributors who might not have shared your point of view.

RogerDaShrubber said:
Specifically this:

One person says opposition to it does not have a sound scientific evidence base, and one person says it does.
When this happens it's clear that both "sides" need to present more science, more evidence, and more detail, because you don't want it to just be a pointless "he says, she says" stalemate.

Click to expand...

in rod we trust said:
no... we all will lose when we have to buy imported fish from countries with no quality control

Here is the thing, debating with you is like talking to a bowl of jelly. It just makes no sense. Stevo was right on the money. You are not interested in facts or truths about the super trawler, what's being caught, how, where, the economics of the decisions being made and the like. You just keep going on and on with the same old politically motivated propaganda arguments that have no basis in reality and then blame the Labour party for your thread being closed down.

I even gave you a link to some good information on the topic, so that you can learn what the real arguments are and become familiar with them, as well as some good advice on how to approach the issue, but all you gave back was more stupid, instead of forming a coherent argument to support your position based on facts.

“A public opinion poll is no substitute for thought.” Warren Buffet

“Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.” John. F. Kennedy

“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynihan

“The majority have no other reason for their opinions other than that they are in fashion.” Samuel Johnson

“Opinion is the exercise of the human will which helps us to make a decision without information.” John Erskine

“It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinions on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.” Murray Rothbard

Opinion: "The reason why stupid people should not be given the vote in a democratic society." RogerDaShrubber

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in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #30 · Sep 5, 2012 (Edited)

i have been on the water for well over 30 years and have seen what the super trawlers do.. anybody in sydney that have also been on the water and seen first hand what these boats do will agree with me..

i'll say it again 20+ years ago when huge fishing trawlers roamed around outside of the heads and open waters.. they depleted and wiped out all of the fishing stocks. then complained there were no fish..now after the buy back scheeme 20 years later its been fantastic out threre and the responsible fishing trawlers all same how great it is..

have you even been outside the heads to fish.. did you bother reading up on what this ship and other's like it have done to there fishing villages, and communties.. have you read up wondered why they are banned from european and african water's i think not.
go out in the real world and ask those people and see for your self..

we are all going to lose out by allowing these type vessels to destroy and plough aussie waters.

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RogerDaShrubber

· #31 · Sep 5, 2012 (Edited)

in rod we trust said:
i have been on the water for well over 30 years and have seen what the super trawlers do.. anybody in sydney that have also been on the water and seen first hand what these boats do will agree with me..

But in Sydney, you have never had super trawlers operating there. A fleet of smaller ships taking more than the resource could handle was the problem.

i'll say it again 20+ years ago when huge fishing trawlers roamed around outside of the heads and open waters.. they depleted and wiped out all of the fishing stocks.

Over use of a resource will lead to that, which was why there were licence buy backs and the like to bring catch levels down to a sustainable level.

did you bother reading up on what this ship and other's like it have done to there fishing villages, and communties.

Yes i have, because i am of the opinion that facts are best used to form an opinion, not hear say and supposition. And here in lies the problems with your position. The size of the boat is irrelevant to the argument, a large boat does less or equal damage to the sea floor than a fleet of smaller boats needed for a given catch rate, the amount of by catch is irrelevant to the argument because again, a fleet of smaller boats will have similar amounts of by catch for a given catch rate. What is important, however, is if the catch rate is sustainable and will not lead to a depletion of the resource.

have you read up wondered why they are banned from european and african water's i think not.

Because the laws and regulations in those places do not put sufficient limits on catch to sustainabley manage the resource.

we are all going to lose out by allowing these type vessels to destroy and plough aussie waters

What a load of rubbish, for this to be true, you need to have a link between ship size and resource depletion. And none exists. What is important is catch rates compared to overall biomass of the resource and recovery rates.

200 guys in tinnies will soon fish out an area also, if there are not limits put on their catch as well. Should be ban all men in tinnies fishing also?

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in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #32 · Sep 5, 2012 (Edited)

RogerDaShrubber said:
But in Sydney, you have never had super trawlers operating there. A fleet of smaller ships taking more than the resource could handle was the problem.

Over use of a resource will lead to that, which was why there were licence buy backs and the like to bring catch levels down to a sustainable level.

Yes i have, because i am of the opinion that facts are best used to form an opinion, not hear say and supposition. And here in lies the problems with your position. The size of the boat is irrelevant to the argument, a large boat does less or equal damage to the sea floor than a fleet of smaller boats needed for a given catch rate, the amount of by catch is irrelevant to the argument because again, a fleet of smaller boats will have similar amounts of by catch for a given catch rate. What is important, however, is if the catch rate is sustainable and will not lead to a depletion of the resource.

Because the laws and regulations in those places do not put sufficient limits on catch to sustainabley manage the resource.

What a load of rubbish, for this to be true, you need to have a link between ship size and resource depletion. And none exists. What is important is catch rates compared to overall biomass of the resource and recovery rates.

ok i leave you to make your own opinion based on what you read not the real world facts. we have had massive trawlers out there. i have seen them with my own 2 eye's 20 + years ago..

i know and seen first hand of what these boats can do..

cheers

RogerDaShrubber

· #33 · Sep 5, 2012

in rod we trust said:
ok i leave you to make your own opinion based on what you read

I offered you a position based on empirical evidence.

in rod we trust said:
not the real world facts. we have had massive trawlers out there.

What you have there is a case of observational bias. Because big boats does not equal resource depletion. Only unsustainable catch rates will lead to resource depletion, irrespective of weather it is 1 boat or 200 guys in tinnies.

Seano

· #34 · Sep 5, 2012

Didnt I hear on the news that there were certain conditions put on this ship today.

millzee

· #35 · Sep 5, 2012

bring those nets up here for me to use for a week!!!!

in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #36 · Sep 5, 2012

Seano said:
Didnt I hear on the news that there were certain conditions put on this ship today.

they sure are sean .. cameras on the nets , and a observer on board..

but also there are a quite a few states that are looking to introduce a law against this vessel, and others like it..

not to mention all the people with boats going to do a blockade..also a lot who want to throw big think rope across there bow to tangle in the prop.. id be in for that..

RogerDaShrubber

· #37 · Sep 6, 2012

millzee said:
bring those nets up here for me to use for a week!!!!

Do you want to wear them Millzee? I prefer fish nets on my wife.

SIKKO_X2

· #38 · Sep 6, 2012

Hey guys,
i was the person that made the thread about the super trawler and i did this because i am a keen fisho that feels very strongly about this matter. I also heavily contributed to the debate that lead to the thread being closed. I admit that i did get carried away with my responses when the other guy started putting his opposing opinion forward and it was fair enough that the thread was closed.

I would like to see a mod make another thread (preferably sticky) that people cant post in about the super trawler with relevant links and information for people to make up their own opinion on this matter and possibly sign petitions and help out in other ways if they feel strongly enough about it. As this is a forum based on peoples hobbies i feel like this has a place here, as i am sure that everybody here enjoys wetting a line and/or having fresh Australian seafood every now and then. Even if you are a person that has no interest, im sure that you would like to understand more and possibly aid in a way that allows your children to enjoy some of the greatest fishing in the world

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in rod we trust

Discussion Starter · #39 · Sep 6, 2012

SIKKO_X2 said:
Hey guys,
i was the person that made the thread about the super trawler and i did this because i am a keen fisho that feels very strongly about this matter. I also heavily contributed to the debate that lead to the thread being closed. I admit that i did get carried away with my responses when the other guy started putting his opposing opinion forward and it was fair enough that the thread was closed.

I would like to see a mod make another thread (preferably sticky) that people cant post in about the super trawler with relevant links and information for people to make up their own opinion on this matter and possibly sign petitions and help out in other ways if they feel strongly enough about it. As this is a forum based on peoples hobbies i feel like this has a place here, as i am sure that everybody here enjoys wetting a line and/or having fresh Australian seafood every now and then. Even if you are a person that has no interest, im sure that you would like to understand more and possibly aid in a way that allows your children to enjoy some of the greatest fishing in the world

spot on..

i like my fishing just as much if not more than what i like my rc cars..

i didn't pay my fishing licence fee to buy out the trawlers, have all the fish just make a return to the out reefs and bays. don't want this plough to come along and destroy the last 15 years of replishing the fish stocks, to come out here and plough the oceans's dry again..
i rather get my fish from australian waters then the dirty river's and poor quality control from the overseas countries..

SIKKO_X2

· #40 · Sep 7, 2012

Naval architecture Boat Slope Line Font

i just found this photo, with this caption

"Check this image out. Its bad enough as it is, but when you realize the net pictured isnt even to scale it gets very scary. IF it was drawn to scale it would extend off the page to the left. And not only is going to rape 18,000 tonnes of natural feed for tuna and marlin and other pelagics its going to then go an buy out every lease holders quoata share in AUS which adds up to almost 100,000 tonnes per year. The effect of this will be devastating!"

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