Higher torque servos and throttle return spring - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Thanks guys, making sense more now. The main thing I was interested in was knowing what's pushing back on the brake servo, I think I understand now.

    Obvious how the steering pushes back, but harder to visualise the spinning brakes essentially forcing the pads apart on a small scale.

    Normal for throttle servo to buzz at WOT and full brake?
    Last edited by scottward; 28-06-2013 at 06:59 PM.

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  3. #22
    R/C God RogerDaShrubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottward View Post
    Thanks guys, making sense more now. The main thing I was interested in was knowing what's pushing back on the brake servo, I think I understand now.
    Physics can be counter intuitive like that, because you have forces moving in different directions and in different ways.
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  4. #23
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    im a big savox fan and unfortunately am using 2 hitec steering servos in my leopard because thats all that fits!!! and not to mention...... theyre CRAP

    im probably running around 35-40 savox servos in total spread across my models

    each and every size in the HV and orange cased series... a few brushless ones in the helis too 0.032 sweep..... blink and youll miss it haha

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  6. #24
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    Hi guys,

    Not sure about some of the advice I was given here....

    I put in a Futaba S3010 on throttle/brake - the throttle return spring CANNOT pull this servo back from WOT to idle at power loss (i.e. simulated power loss by turning the receiver power off).

    There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the servo at all.

    So now I need to get a stronger throttle return spring I suppose.

    Also - with even the existing TRS connected, both my old and this new servo buzz - it's not because I'm going past the mechanical end point - the servo will buzz even if I set the end point back such that full throttle only results in pulling the slide carb half way. If I remove the throttle return spring the buzzing is completely eliminated. Also, naturally, I disconnected the linkage from the servo and operated it manually; it's silky smooth. How on earth do you achieve smooth, buzz free operation without a throttle return spring?????????????

    Scott.

  7. #25
    AUSRC Legend PC WIZ's Avatar
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    Can you post a pic of the throttle return spring setup you have? Is it one that you have made?

    It's pretty simple, Don't use a throttle return spring. Who told you it would be a good idea? IT'S NOT!
    What makes you think you need one? I run lots of nitro's and have never had a throttle return spring on any of them ever.
    All it will achieve is to drain your RX batteries much faster and reduce the life of the servo gears.

    The secret is to keep the RX batteries fresh and rely on the failsafe function to get you out of trouble.
    If your radio doesn't have failsafe, that should be your next upgrade.
    Last edited by PC WIZ; 11-08-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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  8. #26
    R/C God wobblygts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC WIZ View Post
    Can you post a pic of the throttle return spring setup you have? Is it one that you have made?

    It's pretty simple, Don't use a throttle return spring. Who told you it would be a good idea? IT'S NOT!
    What makes you think you need one? I run lots of nitro's and have never had a throttle return spring on any of them ever.
    All it will achieve is to drain your RX batteries much faster and reduce the life of the servo gears.

    The secret is to keep the RX batteries fresh and rely on the failsafe function to get you out of trouble.
    If your radio doesn't have failsafe, that should be your next upgrade.
    Wrong, fresh batteries won't help you in the case of a throttle linkage coming off. Throttle springs have been and will be used by bashers and racers for years gone and years to come. Some servos turn very easily by hand with no power like the Ace DS1015, where as other servos don't turn that readily. The servo return spring only need to be light, you can google them to see the size of them. As Brett has said if you have a strong spring you will have issues wirh your servo.
    Cheers - Jeff.
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  9. #27
    AUSRC Legend PC WIZ's Avatar
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    The chance of a throttle linkage coming off is extremely rare, Tom Waterhouse would give great odds on that never happening in a life time. Are there any cars that come standard with a throttle return spring? I don't recall ever seeing one on any of my nitro's past of present. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open to learn as well.

    Regardless of the use or not to use a throttle return spring, I recon you hit the nail on the head Jeff. The spring is probably to strong.
    Last edited by PC WIZ; 12-08-2013 at 02:48 AM.
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  10. #28
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    I'm pretty sure the Schumacher nitro's came with a return spring.... I know the XTR3E did for sure.
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  11. #29
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    I agree with brett, i have NEVER run a TRS, if you do proper maintenance, ensure all parts are in good working order you should never have a problem. If you want to run one, use a light spring on the carb slide to pull the carb closed if the linkage comes off, relying on a spring to pull your servo will in the long run burn out the motor, or damage the gears in the servo as the servo needs to work to hard to pull it all the time, and it will also cause the buzzing that you are hearing. Can you post a pic of the TRS set up, will be easier to give advice if we can see how you have it all set up
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  12. #30
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    Hi guys.

    I have the RTR EB4-S3, it came with a Thunder Tiger Pro .28 BX-R.

    Attached is a photo that I was able to get from their website of the replacement carb, part number #9748, fortunately for me orientated such that the throttle return spring that it comes with is clearly visible. So, this is what is on there now. Note that this spring, on this particular engine, has to stay put. If you take it off (like I did to check the smoothness of the mechanism), you have to hold the end of the throttle linkage on with your finger so it doesn't fall off; the spring also "holds it together". Although I could possibly remove the spring and just glue the end of the throttle mech on.....

    With the original, weaker, throttle/brake servo that it came with, I could flip the received power off at WOT and this spring would pull the throttle back to idle no problem.

    With the new Futaba S3010 installed, the carb stays at WOT when the power is switched off.

    I suspected this might be the case; how can a higher torque servo be easier to operate by hand than a lower torque one, irrespective of it's quality? How else would it generate the higher torque? It's much easier to push a real car in top gear than in first! :-)

    Anyway....obviously if I want the benefit of a TRS I'm going to need to go for something stronger that can pull the carb back from WOT to idle at power loss.

    OR I forget about the TRS and as, as mentioned earlier, just do careful regular checks so that the chance of a runaway is very unlikely anyway.

    I never used them on planes, but then again, planes aren't bumping over the ground and being subjected to the same vibrations as buggies.

    Really not sure what to do.

    Ditch it altogether and take the risk of a runaway or get a stronger spring and let the servo buzz away........

    Thanks for the help guys - hope you can see the photo below ok?

    9748.jpg

  13. #31
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    A return spring is more to protect against radio, servo or receiver battery failure, and a failsafe does not provide protection against these things.

    Put the spring around the hsn and the throttle slide, not the servo horn. This method is used regularly and works fine.

    It is important not to load the servo up too much - especially cheap servos as it will cause premature failure.

  14. #32
    AUSRC Legend PC WIZ's Avatar
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    The failsafe function provides protection against TX failure or out of range issues.
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  15. #33
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    It does, but that's it. It won't protect against a faulty switch, dead receiver battery, blown servo or a faulty receiver. I've seen the result of these things and its not pretty.

  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by asc View Post
    A return spring is more to protect against radio, servo or receiver battery failure, and a failsafe does not provide protection against these things.

    Put the spring around the hsn and the throttle slide, not the servo horn. This method is used regularly and works fine.

    It is important not to load the servo up too much - especially cheap servos as it will cause premature failure.
    Not quite sure I follow - are you saying that I should disconnect the spring from the carby and stretch it around the HSN? Are you referring to the spring in my photo, or are you talking about a different spring? I'm not sure why you referred to the servo horn - I don't have the spring attached to the servo horn. Were you able to view the photo I attached? It shows exactly how I have it set up right now.

    Scott.

  17. #35
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    Hmmm. So a CORELESS high torque servo is easy to turn by hand, but not a regular servo?

    Possibly that's where some of the earlier confusion occurred.

  18. #36
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    Sorry, I thought I saw a photo of a spring wrapped around the servo horn, but now I can't seem to find it or any other photo. Can you post apic of your setup again?

  19. #37
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    Photo should be in line 7 posts "up"...

    It's definitely there, I just checked...

  20. #38
    AUSRC Legend PC WIZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottward View Post
    Photo should be in line 7 posts "up"...

    It's definitely there, I just checked...
    If you look at the pic of the carby he posted, you will see a little spring going from the carby body to the throttle linkage post.
    It's very hard to see as the pic is so small, I missed it the first time and had to look a few times before I saw it.
    It's an unusual set up, perhaps that's why we are missing it.
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  21. #39
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    Yeah it is a little bit hard to see, I was going to draw a red circle around it. Sorry about that guys, should have made it clearer.

    I was just wondering, the TRS is always going to be putting load on the servo, so, it would be normal for the throttle servo to buzz a little bit at any point where the spring is being pulled against, right?

    Scott.

  22. #40
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    I have a TTR EB4-S3 myself and have installed a couple of the Savox servos and they have been bulletproof, will get the specific models off the car this evening...

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