: Gasser Heli selection advice



Wing_Nut1960
28-01-2009, 07:48 PM
Hi Folks, :)

I'm interested in purchasing and building a gasser heli as my next machine and would appreciate any advice on selection.
From what I have read on the web the Spectra-G and the Century Predator seem to be most talked about.
What are your opinions based on ownership of gasser helis regarding setup cost, availabiliity and cost of parts, heli maintenance, Australian distributors and of course stability and flying?

I have also had a look at the range of Zenoah Hanson Modified engines and the (3) available don't seem to have alot of difference in cost, would the 3D-Max Heli be an over-kill for sport flying, or is it best to have the power and performance in hand?
Is the Century Gas Torpedo V3 Tuned Muffler a good match for this engine?

Any constructive advice would be appreciated from gasser owners.

Regards
Wing_Nut1960 :thumb:

AUSRC
28-01-2009, 07:52 PM
Hey WN,

Welcome to AUSRC.COM.

The Spectra G is the only choice in my opinion. Wait for Peter to come online and I am sure he will be happy to help. He has three "G"s at last count.

I will be hooking into a "G" shortly. They are an incredibly capable machine, that flys beautifully. They 3D pretty well too.

Miniature Aircraft is a superb manufacturer, so it is hard to go wrong.

Regards,
Chris.

Peter
28-01-2009, 08:41 PM
As Chris has said , Hi and welcome..

I'm sorta a tad biased towards Miniature Aircraft products ; I've been flying them since 1988 , with some other brands in my fleet at times, but now all I have is MA helis.....

If you can get to QRCHA's Gold Coast field this Friday or Sunday , and you fly Mode 1, you can try a couple of my Spectra G's out ,( once I'm assured you can fly OK !! ) I have a Hanson 26 in one , a TRM231 in one , and a std Zenoah 231 in another .. the 26 def has more poke , but all fly great!

I have Century mufflers on mine , but might try a Zimmerman next......

They cost , to buy/setup , about the same as a high quality 90 size heli , but fuel costs are miniscule! 20+ minutes from a 500ml tank, at around $1.20 a litre .. My 90 nitro Stratus's get around 11mins , at $9 a litre...:(

Kits , and parts , are available from Glenn at RCHeliworld in Sydney, he has most parts in stock .

The Predator also flys very well , indeed , it's the only brand I'd swap too , should MA ever stop making helis!!. theres a 2nd hand one here for sale atm , its a great deal too .. It might be here on Sunday if you're interested .. They are supported out of Sydney too ....

BTW , there's also a Miniature Aircraft 1005 Gasser for sale in Brisbane with one of our members; makes a great sports flyer , has a 26 ( almost new ) in it too ....

Either way , a gasser is a great choice :):)


Hope to see you Sunday ..

Wing_Nut1960
29-01-2009, 08:53 PM
Thanks for your opinions,
I was swaying towards the MA Spectra-G, but I wanted to see what others were flying to make sure I could at least get some local help if required.
I just got a response back from Al Chianelli from B.H. Hanson Products in regards to the 3D-Max Heli engine, Century Gas Torpedo V3 Tuned Muffler and postage to OZ, (THE EXCHANGE RATE IS KILLING ME) :(:( .
AUD $1022.00, I might need to wait a bit keep saving and see if the $ recovers some.

Thanks for the invite to the QRCHA's Gold Coast field, I will definately take you up on it in the future, probably on a Sunday which is the day I normally get to fly.
BTW where is your field situated?

Thanks again!!:)
Regards
Kelvin

Peter
29-01-2009, 09:30 PM
hi Kelvin , the field is on the Nerang-Murwillumbah rd, about 600m past the Springbrook turnoff, on the right.. Theres a QRCHA sign there. A google earth piccy thingo is on our website at www.qrcha.com ...

Call me on 0428717629 for any more info..

BTW , do you fly a heli atm ? what have you got , and what sort of pilot are you ? And if you know Brian Stenhouse , tell him he's way overdue for a visit here too !

You'll be welcome any sunday , but the plankers have the field on Feb 8th though ...

Wing_Nut1960
30-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Thanks Peter for your welcome and willingness to provide advice and information. If you are anything to go by it must be a great club and a must to get there and meet yourself and others.

I currently have (5) helicopters, both nitro and electric

T-Rex 250
T-Rex 450 SE V2
NextD Rave 450
T-Rex 600 Electric
Raptor 90SEI am a sports flyer and mostly fly the T-Rex 450 & 600. The Raptor has given me engine tuning problems which has been frustrating. I currently have someone trying to tune it for me so I can get some air time on it before I put on a Hughes 500MD Scale Fuselage which I'm looking forward to. The NextD Rave is new and with the standard Scorpion 6 motor it is balistic and for my requirements needs to be tamed down so I'm going to change the motor to the Scorpion 8 and hope this makes it much more comfortable for my flying level and ability.

I try to fly every Sunday 6-8 flights unless it's raining or blowing a gail. As far as my flying ability, I'm a sports flyer and never intend to do 3D flying, I am very comfortable flying circuits and figure 8's either direction, stall turns, nose in hovering and all other upright orientations. I have introduced negative pitch to my heli's so that I can start to practice autos and work towards rolls and loops. It would be great to have assistance to tackle a roll and loop for the first time especially for radio setup and maybe buddybox.

I am self taught being a former fixed wing flyer which I still keep my hand in along with the use of a flight simulator. I am currently practicing inverted hovering on the flight sim and doing much better than I expected I would, probably because of the many hours I spent in hover practice before I got up the guts to go into forward flight which was one of my highlights in heli flying.

I fly Mode 1 (throttle/aileron - right, elevator/rudder - left) taken from fixed wing days. Most of my helis are flown using 2.4GhZ with the JR 9303 with the exception of the Raptor, I use the JR X3810.

I currently belong to our local club at GlenEagles in Beaudesert being a founding member, the club has been running now a little over 1 year with about 13 current members and we fly on a turf farm.

That pretty much sums me up.

Peter
30-01-2009, 09:05 PM
We'd love to see you anytime at the jungle , as QRCHA's Gold Coast field is known , the sooner the better would be great!! Should be able to sort the Rappy 90 out for you too.

I'm a JR person too , as are the majority of the flyers here ;well Jr and Spektrum anyway , a few pootaba's surface at times!

No probs coaching you through a few basic aeros etc , and I love autoes; prob do 20 autos for every powered landing. I'm a MAAA heli , and fixed wing , Instructor too , so bronze/gold wings tests/coaching happens a lot here ...

CYA this Sunday ??? :thumb::thumb:

Wing_Nut1960
31-01-2009, 05:50 PM
Hi Peter, I will get to the so called jungle soon, I'm planning on coming along the Sunday after next (15th Feb) as I have already committed myself for the next (2) Sundays. I checked it out on Google Earth and Whereis and it's approximately 1 hr travel time from my place.

I spoke to the guy that is trying to tune the Rappy 90 today and he hasn't had any luck yet. Tommorrow he is going to by-pass the pump and see if this helps the situation, the motor is the OS91 SZH w/pump. It has been trouble right from the start and makes me appreciate electric helis more and more each time I think about the trouble its been.

I might bring a flying friend along and I'll see you in a couple of weeks.

Cheers ! ! :)
Kelvin

Peter
31-01-2009, 07:13 PM
Sounds good to me! friends are welcome too..:thumb:


I've got a couple of SZH ps motors, and a couple of unpumped ones too, can't remember the needle settings , but I know they are nothing like the OS instructions state!!
If he bypasses the pump , he'll have to remove the pressure reg as well, it does all sorts of funnies with low ( muffler only) pressure!!


Looking forward to catching up ..

now just need to get Chris , AUSRC , to get his act together.........;);)

Atomicwedgie
01-02-2009, 05:52 PM
Yep there sure is always plenty of help on hand at the jungle.
If you make the effort to come down you wont regret it. Me and Daz make the trip north about once a month. Takes us about 1hr 15min from here.

If you still want to get a gasser I would get the centry. There is already way to many MA machines around these parts already:D:D

Hope to see you at the jungle soon.

Peter
01-02-2009, 07:52 PM
Hey Glen, Given that 1 Miniature Aircraft heli = 12,345,765 Tiawanese junk machines in terms of goodness, I can't see why you persevere with those machines you have..:bang: Although maybe some of the goodness from Daz's Stratus attaches itself to the Queen while they are in the car together on the way up here regularly!!!!:D

Again , as is almost the norm , MA helis outnumbered the rest at the jungle today!!!!!

;);)

Atomicwedgie
02-02-2009, 05:11 PM
Hmmm..... I would love to have a come back for that Pete but I think you might be right.

The Queen has a new cluch in her now so will have to see how she goes on the weekend befor I make any stupid desions like selling her for an MA machine.

Peter
02-02-2009, 05:28 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: enuff said !!!!

Wing_Nut1960
02-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Hi Guys, I don't want to incite heli brand rage...:bang:, luckily it just seems to be innocent tongue in cheek fun.

I'm sure they're all good helis, its just some are better than others :D:D!

Peter I haven't had an update on the engine tunning yet, but I'll pass on your suggestion about the pressure reg. No engine should be this hard to tune, maybe its faulty. It always starts without problems, idols well, but the transition through mid stick to hover it turns to s**t.

The Rappy 90 is a robust chopper and I wish the engine could be sorted out so that I could appreciate it and enjoy some stick time with it. Maybe I could convert it to a Gasser if all else fails with the engine :thumb:

Cheers
Kelvin

Peter
02-02-2009, 10:09 PM
It is all in fun .. Wait till you visit and listen to the banter!!!!


Try screwing the mid range needle ; the short one ; all the way in , then open it 2 clicks , and try that ....Mine are set that way , as are most others ; think my main needles are at around 1.5 turns open .. Thats with 20%N , 20% oil , fuel , enya 3 plug ....


There is a gasser conversion kit for the R90, but it ends up a very heavy heli!!!

Atomicwedgie
03-02-2009, 05:57 PM
Nah its all in good fun Kevin. As Pete said the BS can fly fairly fast at the j
Jungle some times:tongue1:

I too have had a lot of trouble getting my 91 pumped runnig right but with Pete's help I think we have solved the tuning problems. Just need to fix the Tiawanese problems now.

When you come down to the Jungle for a fly Im sure Pete and the guys will be able to get you sorted in no time.

Cheers

Wing_Nut1960
04-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Thanks guys for your suggestions and offers of support in trying to solve the tuning problems. I'll definately bring it along to the jungle when I come if the issue hasn't been resolved and I have the heli back.
From the sounds of it there is alot of expertise at hand to assist. At our club there are only (2) heli flyers and we have basically taken the journey together and supported and helped each other out. It would be great to have access to a broader range of people at various levels of skill and experience.

Looking forward to getting to the field :thumb::thumb:

Cheers
Kelvin

r2160
15-02-2009, 09:50 AM
Hey wingnut

I would be very surprised if it was a pump problem. When OS went to the SZ motors, they used the same kind of pump that the pattern guys have been using forever. I would suggest that it is more a glow plug/tuning problem than the pump.

Maybe go for a wander down the jungle and see what happens. Maybe even try some different fuel.

cheers
Glenn

Wing_Nut1960
16-02-2009, 07:11 PM
Thanks Glenn,
I've left it to some experts who have been trying all kinds of combinations with fuel, plugs and tuning, so as a last resort its bypass the pump and regulator to see if this solves the issue. Hopefully I should know very soon as they have ordered a part for the carby after the regulator was removed and are now waiting for delivery, so fingers crossed. :thumb:

Cheers
Kelvin

Wing_Nut1960
04-04-2009, 11:39 AM
Hi Guys :),
What are the recommendations for engines for the Spectra-G?
My flying style would be classed as "Sports flying" so 3D will not be part of my repetoire.
I spoke with Glenn from R/C Heliworld and he suggested that the standard Zenoah would be satisfactory for my intended use.

This is a link to a Zenoah G260PUH G26 Heli Engine on ebay from Dave's Discount Motors. Is this the standard Zenoah Heli Engine?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230287501562&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:AU:1123

I thought if I purchased a modified Zenoah it might be a smoother running motor and give better overall performance.

Looking forward to what you all think.

Cheers :thumb::thumb:,
Kelvin

Wing_Nut1960
04-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Hi Guys,
I finally got the Raptor 90 back and in running condition, so all I need is time on the sticks to get used to the larger machine.
I can now run a full tank of gas through it without the engine cutting out and the transition into hover is now satisfactory.

The engine is still very rich as oil drips from the exhaust and there is still alot of smoke, so further tuning will be required. I have adjusted the needles a bit to lean it out but it seems to be in a stable spot and adjustments seem to upset it.

I just managed to buy some enya No3 plugs from ModelFlight as they weren't available locally, I was told by a LHS that Enya were not going to continue to produce glow plugs so if this can be confirmed you may want to stock up.
I haven't tried the new plug yet as the weather hasn't been king enough to get to a field.
I think I will bring it down to the jungle to some of you experienced guys and seek some help to get it right.

Cheers,
Kelvin

Wing_Nut1960
04-04-2009, 03:11 PM
Hi Guys,
What are the current opinions on the (2) different heads for the Spectra-G, Tempest or Extreme?
I haven't managed to find much information on these heads to determine what is the real difference between the two.

Any advice or opinions would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Kelvin

Peter
04-04-2009, 04:27 PM
the std 26 , as in that link , can be a bit shakey ; the std 231puh , also listed at DDM , is much smoother , and will have more than enough power for what you want..

Easy fix for the vibes in a 26 is to remove some weight off the piston to make it the same weight as the 231 piston ..


I'll have 2 of my G's at the jungle tomorrow, rain or not!!! a std 231 and a TRM 231... Extreme head on one , Tempest on the other ....

Wing_Nut1960
05-04-2009, 02:26 PM
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your response, unfortunatey I went out yesterday arvo and didn't get home til late so I didn't see your response about being at the jungle today with your G's, dam :bang:.

Will there be flying on "Good Friday", if so will you be there again and would the G's be present?

I had sucess today with the Rappy using the Enya#3 plug, what a difference, I was able to tune the mid range down to (6) clicks out over (4) tanks before I ran out of fuel. All I need now is a bit of fine tuning to get the best performance and setup the radio and heli for scale flying.

Hope to get to the jungle again real soon.

Regards,
Kelvin

Peter
05-04-2009, 07:42 PM
We surely will be there this Friday, I could probably force myself to have the G's in attendance too ...

Pleased you got the Rappy sorted , what was the problem ?


Hope to catch up Friday , or Sunday at Ripley will be a hoot too ....

Wing_Nut1960
06-04-2009, 10:12 PM
Hi Peter,
I tried to order the 231 PUH from MF but they were OUT OF STOCK :bang:. I'm now awaiting new stock availability, there was stock there yesterday so someone must have beaten me to the last one.

RAPPY Problem;
The bolt that is situated at the base of the idle adjustment cam had come out previously and I had replaced it with a new one (original part). Apparently I had installed it incorrectly, I was supposed to place the washer under the base of the cam then insert the bolt through, but I had put the washer under the head of the bolt like you normally would WRONG.
This caused (2) problems, it moved the carby barrel in a fraction thereby slightly obstructing the mixture needle hole and also caused binding of the barrel by the stop screw.

Even though this had been fixed I still couldn't lean the mid range mixture screw less than 1 1/8 turns out with the 0S#8 plug otherwise the motor would die in the transition to hover. Once I replaced it with the Enya#3 the tuning problems seemed to have gone and I'm currently at (6) clicks out at mid range, just under 1 1/2 turns on high end on 15% nitro which is my intended fuel %.

I'll bring it to the jungle on Friday and maybe I can get some expert fine tuning to get the best performance.

Looking forward to catching up again.:thumb:
Regards,
Kelvin

Peter
10-04-2009, 08:40 PM
We ALMOST got the Rappy sorted , was developing some good power till that elevator A arm pin came adrift! Those servos have some grunt to bend it like that too ; and the Numinbah Valley crash gods must have been looking the other way too , stuff all damage :thumb::thumb:..
The little 450 was going good too , and your first loops , ever , with the E600 looked like you'd been doing them for ages.. Was awesome.....


BTW ask Glennie if the Extreme head now comes with the flybar carrier assy., if it doesnt , go the Tempest head , cos it does!!! ( Glennie might even pop in here )


Just another fun day at QRCHA's Gold Coast field....;);)

r2160
11-04-2009, 12:24 AM
Hi kids

Peter, why would I go anywhere else?

The extreme head doesnt come with the stratus flybar carrier, so for very little more, you get the tempest head and stratus flybar carrier thrown in, heaps better value I reckon.

By the way, you could also try an OS A3, seems to have a similar heat range to the Enya 3

cheers
Glenn

Wing_Nut1960
11-04-2009, 08:26 PM
Hi Peter,
Thanks heaps for all your help yesterday, believe it or not I had a great day even with the Rappy mishap.
Doing loops for the first time has given me a heap more confidence, just need to keep practicing and improving, (Shame about work getting in the way of flying helis).

You're right about the Numinbah gods being kind, the damage to the Rappy was minimal.:):)

Feathing Shaft (Spindle) had a nice bend at one end, where the blade holder buts up to the head.
The Input & Output bevel gears in the tail gear box looked like a bunch of toothpicks.
The tail servo gears were stipped.
The pin in the elevator A arm and missing circlip, I straighted the pin and had a spare circlip so that's now repaired.
The skid brace broke (I have repaird it by inserting and epoxing two threaded rods into the (2) halves then epoxing the brace together. I also made a metal plate that goes under the brace for extra strength). As I won't be needing the landing gear for the scaley I think this should hold up for awhile yet.
The sim carbon canopy was ripped off, some cosmetic damage that a bit of fibreglass cloth and cyano on the inside fixed, with the addition of some new screws and its good to go. Once again not required for the scaley so will do for now.I was also able to get rid of the slop in the aileron belcranks, and in the elevator seesaw.
So overall a great day I'm looking forward to many more.:thumb::thumb:

PS: It was great to see the Spectra-G's, so it looks like one will be on my birthday list now with the Tempest Head version, and maybe the tempest open tail upgrade.
Peter I have already forgotten the metal upgrade part you were referring to on the Zenoah for mounting the carby. Could you let me know again what the company /part was so I can purchase.

Cheers
Kelvin

Wing_Nut1960
11-04-2009, 08:38 PM
Hi Peter,
I'm following an ebay item that is the Futaba GY601 package.
Been used for a few flights on a T-Rex 600E before being replaced with a heli-command system. Then stored and advertised as new condition.

What do you know about this Gyro, is it worth purchasing at the right price, and would it be suitable for the Spectra-G as a better alternative to the GY401?
I read a review on the Pootaba site and it was rated as a top of the line gyro. It looks like it was the model before the GY611.
I can't see them listed anywhere online, which is my only current concern.

Any thoughts anyone!

Cheers
Kelvin

Peter
11-04-2009, 08:41 PM
This is the part.. http://www.davesmotors.com/s.nl/c.885035/n.1/it.A/id.4477/.f or from here in Aus .. http://www.hobbydepot.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=67&products_id=415



that's one very lucky Rappy!!!!!


And practice rolls on the sim; it's rolls and autoes next visit!!!!


601 is a great gyro , that's what's in my G's , as long as the price is right...it is the model before the 611 and is almost identical..... a new 611 is around $500 atm !!!!

Wing_Nut1960
12-04-2009, 07:54 PM
Thanks Peter for the links,
I've ordered from the Oz site, keeping the $$ in the country and all that.
I wasn't able to get any replacement parts for the Rappy as R/C Warehouse was closed and Budget Hobbies only stocked spares for the 30/50 rappies. So will try R/C Warehouse on Tuesday after that I will have to order the parts in. I purchased (2) sets of tail servo gears from ebay and they will now be in transit I hope.

I asked the guy that was selling the GY601 what servo was he including as the original was a S9251 which I understand will only work with this gyro. His response was that it was a S9252.

Peter, do you know if the S9252 will work with the GY601, as I haven't managed to find anything online to answer my question?
I would'nt want to buy this gyro then have to shell out for the S9251 so that I can use the Gyro.

Rolls and Autos next time, you're putting me under pressure now I'll have to pull my finger out and get in a lot of practice.

Cheers:)
Kelvin

Peter
12-04-2009, 08:43 PM
You can use a 9252, but that defeats the benefits of having a 601!! ( you have to go into the "hidden menu " in the 601 and change its output timing to suit the 9252 ).... It'll still be better than a 401 though ....

It'd want to be cheap; under $250 with a good 9252.... If you get it cheap enough , you could get a BL251 servo; that's a great combo!


What pressure !!!!! ....

Wing_Nut1960
13-04-2009, 08:55 PM
Thanks Peter for the info on the GY601 and servo, the current bid is $122.50 with (1) week still to go. I'll check it out next week and see if the price is reasonable, if so I'll have a go.

I went flying today to start work on reducing the pressure and should have stayed at home. I took (2) helis to the field and stacked both of them, so I'm curently not a happy vegemite.:bang::bang:

The TRex600 was the first one in which I reckon was all pilot error, flying too far away from myself and loosing orientation against the grey sky, then panicking and fumbling with the radio switches. It's not a pretty site, have you ever seen a flybar paddle protruding through the leading edge of the main blades and both blades were split lenthways like (2) slices of bread. Picture that and you can imagine the rest.:mad:

The 450 went in on its last flight of the day after I had done numerous loops and even started doing some rolls, which I was very impressed with myself. I don't really know why it happened, but it had the same feeling that I have experienced before when one of the cyclic servos stripped its gears and I had no control. The aileron pushrod had sheared of at the ball link but I don't know if this happened in the impact. I was climbing to do a stall turn before coming in on final approach then it all went bad.

This is definately an Easter weekend I will remember, but the upside to it is I can now do loops and rolls :D. There's always a positive side to everything.

See you again when I'm airborne, luckily I still have the Rave 450 which I'll now need to fine tune a bit, otherwise it's back to fixed wing until all parts and repairs are done.

See you at the jungle sometime soon :thumb:

Regards
Kelvin

Peter
13-04-2009, 09:34 PM
;););)

I once had a paddle find its way into the fuel tank of a Fury , so I can relate to your pain !!! And I've had days like that too , fortunately far outnumbered by GREAT days!!!

Good stuff with the progress , the first ones are the hardest!


Catch up soon ...

Wing_Nut1960
15-04-2009, 08:46 PM
Thanks Peter for the encouragement,
I'm now over it and awaiting the arrival of the spare parts for the (3) helis, then I can do some rebuilding which I also enjoy. To get all the required parts I had to order from (5) different hobby shops within QLD, interstate, Hong Kong and the UK. I tried to keep the money in the country, but wasn't prepared to wait for all those "Out of Stock" items !:D

I totally agree about the great days outnumbering the bad ones, if we are to dwell on the bad ones we wouldn't last long in the hobby.

I now have confirmation that my Zenoah 231 PUH is in transit from NZ, so that means I have started my commitment to the Spectra-G, there's no turning back now.

Catch up with you again soon:thumb:

Cheers
Kelvin

Wing_Nut1960
20-04-2009, 07:50 PM
Hi Peter,
Well the Gasser engine arrived and what a great price, it came through on the credit card at $303.00 AUD and that inludes postage and card currency conversion fees. The company is called (436 Model Shop) so it's probably worth checking out.

Problem:
I had the TRex 600 rebuilt and finished at 11:30 pm Saturday night ready for a Sunday morning flight. Unfortunately it was extremely windy at the field but I wanted to run the heli up to see if all was OK.
The tail was a little slow in its response in the hover, but I just put it down to the gusty wind conditions. After about 3 mins I brought the heli up to eye level to check out the tracking which was spot on but then the tail swung about 90 degrees to the left then did the same to the right and then I quickly landed before it got out of control.
Do you think the Gyro may have been damaged in the crash or could I have just setup the tail incorrectly in the rebuild? I didn't change any settings with the gyro, I just set it up again mechanically.
Any hints or things I could check to reconfirm if there's gyro damage.

Cheers
Kelvin

Peter
20-04-2009, 08:34 PM
that's a great price! hope he's got some more .......( buggar , just looked , he's $480NZ, about 380 Au, + post ; but still cheaper than in Aus )

re the tail , reckon I'd look at the tail servo for stripped gears , while it's been known , it's rare for a gyro to get damaged without some obvious signs , like a smashed case!!! Also have seen stripped ball link threads , and the wire> carbon rod glue joint let go....
your 600 is belt or t/tube tail drive? belts can loose teeth , or get loose ; t/tube drives are notorious for destroying the gears that drive them too ...

Wing_Nut1960
23-04-2009, 08:55 PM
Hi Peter, :thumb:
I couldn't believe the change in price on the 231 PUH, it would seem that I was very lucky and probably got the last of the previous stock. Everyone can do with some good luck every now and then, so it must have been my turn.

My son is coming back from the USA for a few weeks, next week so I ordered some components from Ron's HeliProz South for the Spectra-G to go with the engine. The Century Torpedo Muffler V3, the Hi-Flow Air Cleaner, 690mm Radix Blades, CY Solid G Gyro and the Pro-Flex Precision Start System. So I think I'm off to a good start.

It was the 690mm blades that go with the Tempest head, I thought I heard you say, if not I'll have a spare set for something.

I haven't got back to the TRex 600e yet, but I'm going to do a bit of dismantling and see if I can find the problem. One thing that I remember that was significantly different was the tightness of the autorotation tail drive gear. Normally when I carry the heli by the blade grips the tail will swing around, but after the rebuilt it would stay in whatever position the tail was pointing, and the gear was also much firmer to rotate. Maybe that is where the trouble lies, as I did replace the main gear which was stipped in a couple of places. Anyways I'm hoping it's not the gyro.

Catch up with you again soon.:):)

Cheers
Kelvin

Peter
24-04-2009, 11:01 PM
I never have that sort of luck...:mad::mad:

Yep , 690's are great on the Tempest head...

A stuffed auto hub can cause that effect , as can a burning wiring harness, as I found out today..:bang:

Wing_Nut1960
26-04-2009, 05:05 PM
Hi Peter,
A burning wire harness sounds very problematic, was it coming in contact with the engine casing, I hope it didn't result in too much damage?

The TRex600e had a work out today so all is good again, and know stuffed gyro to replace so leaves more cash in the kitty to go towards the Spectra-G.:):)

I pulled the autorotation hub out, tested it to make sure it was functioning as it should, cleaned it , lubricated it and reassembled it. It was certainly a lot looser afterwards. I also noticed that the tail pitch slider wasn't centred properly at mid stick, so a few turns on the ball link had that sorted as well. I tested the TRex600 out with some full speed piros in the hover in both directions and the gyro stopped on a dime, so I considered that as a resonable test to make sure the gyro wouldn't become erratic again. I had (3) flights today and it flew as good as before the mishap, so I'm Happy Again!.

I'm still waiting on the arrival of the tail servo gears for the Rappy, other than that it's all back together again, hopefully they should arrive this week, I think they're on the slow boat from China, oops I mean Hong Hong.:D

See you again in a couple of weeks:thumb:
P.S Thanks again for all your help and support and of course responding on the forums.

Cheers,
Kelvin

Peter
12-05-2009, 09:59 AM
the burning wire effect was caused by some mindless heli mechanic crushing the wires between the carbon frames....:bang: :confused:

I hate it when I cant blame someone/something else...... but its all good again now.....

Great that your heli is going again, you're welcome at the Jungle any time.....

Wing_Nut1960
12-05-2009, 08:20 PM
Hi Peter,
Those mindless heli mechanics are always a problem, I think I have been one myself on a few occasions. :D

The Rappy is operational again but.. I test flew it in the backyard, hovered and noticed an intermittent vibration which was showing up in the landing skids. I did some power climbouts and it would come and go. I thought the main shaft must have also been damaged, so I ordered a new one, the old one when rolled on a sheet of glass was questionable as to if it was bent. I replaced it anyway but this hasn't entirely fixed the problem, I'm thinking it's a headspeed issue as it isn't constant and seems to be affected by thottle/pitch interaction.

I had two good flights on Sunday and the motor still seems very rich based on the smoke trail, it was a very windy day but the rappy handled it very well. That extra weight is sooo good in the hover doing slow manoevers, it's like chalk and cheese compared to the light weight Trex600e.

I hope to get back to the jungle either this Sunday or next :thumb:, maybe you can detect what's going on with the rappy.

Cheers,
Kelvin

Wing_Nut1960
12-05-2009, 08:30 PM
Hi Peter,
I've been doing some google searches to try and determine the use of the servo savers or whatever they're called for use on the Spectra-G. Do you have any information or links in regards to these optional extras? Also what about the restrictor for the Century Torpedo V3 Muffler, is it a worthwhile option and what advantage will it provide?

I also noticed that MA no longer supply the Spectra-G with the open tail transmission and offer a deal for replacement to those that have them.
Have you read anything about this to understand what the issues have been as I see that you have this on at least one of your gassers?

Regards,
Kelvin

Peter
12-05-2009, 09:51 PM
I hate it when a heli shakes! got a Stratus doing that atm too ..


Re the G, the currently supplied tail box is THE BOX !! MA's closed metal tail box is almost indestructable; far superior to the open box. I'm slowly getting rid of the open boxes and fitting the closed ones to my helis..I'll explain the early open box hassles when I see you , too much to type! But it is sorted now...

The Century restrictor helps with tuning the 231, not needed with a 26...

The MA " servo savers" help to stabilise the servos, definitely save the mounting lugs and grommets etc , and probably make it more precise, not that I can pick that!!

See you soon......:thumb:

Peter
17-05-2009, 08:47 PM
Another great day at the Jungle , sorted the Rappy shake too :thumb:

I hope Klaus? liked the changes we made to his heli, origionally I was just going to change stuff in the radio , and save his old setup ; but it needed a bit more than that !! His Mode 1234 made it a bit hard for anyone else to fly his heli;)

Had the headlights on again to leave the field , but I was a tad late getting there ..:)

r2160
18-05-2009, 11:50 AM
You are right on with the tail gearboxes Pete.

The closed gearboxes, provided you pop a bit of grease in there occasionally never wear out and never break!!!!

thats all I have as well!

cheers
Glenn

Wing_Nut1960
22-05-2009, 11:13 PM
Thanks Peter for your help with the Rappy!:)

I'll be powering it up tomorrow morning to see how it is after your final adjustments. I think those last adjustments were to enable the engine to be shut down from the radio as this was not possible after the work on the engine and radio tuning were complete.

I haven't caught up with Claus this week as I have been away in Mackay for work, but will probably see him in the weekend. I think he'll be fine, he will just need to get used to the changes as I did. Claus is quite conservative and cautious so it was a good thing and will allow him to move forward.

On our way home Claus and I were too busy talking and missed a 60 speed limit sign near Canungra and unfortunately paid the price, some $200.00 later, I was not a happy vegemite :bang::bang:. Not a good end to a great day flying.

Thanks again and I'll see you in a few weeks time at the jungle.

Cheers
Kelvin :thumb:

Wing_Nut1960
30-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Hi Peter,
I'm currently researching servos for the Spectra-G and of course I have changed my mind various times for many different reasons and so far haven't purchased anything.
The one I'm indecisive most about at present is the throttle servo, considering all I have read on the forums. I'm not really sure about the use of metal or even Titanium gears in the throttle servos as a number have recommended against this. What are your thoughts and/or recommendations?

This is what I have in mind so far;
Cyclic: INO-LAB HG-D751MG
Rudder: JR 8900G (Only because it is one of the pre-programmed servos in the CY Solid G Gyro I have purchased)
Throttle: ?????

I know servo selection and opionions are many and varied, but your opinion is valued by me.

Cheers,
Kelvin

Peter
30-05-2009, 01:52 PM
Most of us have had high quality digital servos suffer a very short life as throttle servos on gassers!!
Cheap analogue servos seem to last lots better ; I have Hitec 422's on mine......I know of a few with pootaba 3001's too , all working well.....

Bet that's upset your thinking!!!! :D

Peterv
01-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Most of us have had high quality digital servos suffer a very short life as throttle servos on gassers!!
Cheap analogue servos seem to last lots better ; I have Hitec 422's on mine......I know of a few with pootaba 3001's too , all working well.....

Bet that's upset your thinking!!!! :D

Hi Peter, just out of interest why do you think an analog servo is better and why would a digital servo be more vulnerable as a throttle servo, over the other cyclic servo's. I would think it would be subject to the same amount of vibration as the others, whilst operating the lowest load:confused:

I'm asking this for the exact reason wingnut-1960 is, because I too will be looking for servo's when my trex700 finaly arrives. BTW, seems like its boomeranged back to Hong Kong, due to some unknown postal glitch:bang:

Anyway, back to the question of servo's and for other similarly experience gassers out there like yourself, are servo failures more prominent with gasser's than nitro powered machines?

In 20 years of flying nitro, I have had less than a handfull of servo failures [no digital back in those years!] and obviously if there is a valid reason, I'm all ears as I want to make the correct selection for my gasser, hence the questions:thumb:

Cheers,

Peter
01-06-2009, 07:41 PM
It's only the throttle servo that gives trouble on the gassers, I've had futaba, JR and hitec digitals die , rather quickly , whereas Hitec 422's , etc etc seem to last forever .. and its the electronics in the servos that goes , pots and motors are usually still OK ....

I have no idea of the reasons , it's just what happens:bang: Pretty common everywhere too , though there's always some that claim to have no problems with any servo as well :confused:

I've also had very few servos die in planks or helis, been into flying since 1971 ,helis since 1976, but experience indicates that gassers eat the "quality " servos when they're used on throttle!!!

Peterv
02-06-2009, 02:24 PM
It's only the throttle servo that gives trouble on the gassers, I've had futaba, JR and hitec digitals die , rather quickly , whereas Hitec 422's , etc etc seem to last forever .. and its the electronics in the servos that goes , pots and motors are usually still OK ....

I have no idea of the reasons , it's just what happens:bang: Pretty common everywhere too , though there's always some that claim to have no problems with any servo as well :confused:

I've also had very few servos die in planks or helis, been into flying since 1971 ,helis since 1976, but experience indicates that gassers eat the "quality " servos when they're used on throttle!!!

Hmm....... I would still like to fully understand as to why a throttle servo on a gasser is working any harder than it would on a nitro engine though? And as you stated, some say they haven't experienced any problems with throttle servo's, so as an electrical engineer this makes me very uncomfortable:confused:

Anyway, I suppose an analog servo is cheaper than a digital one so I have no problem with that. Hitec 422 it is then:thumb:

I run a JR radio so any suggestions for the cyclic servo's?

Peter
02-06-2009, 03:37 PM
I don't think it's "working harder " on a gasser throttle , but it is connected to the vibration source ; my thoughts anyway....

The Spectra G I have in front of me atm has Futaba 9252's on swash controls ,my other G's run Hitec digitals, 6975's I think ...

Wing_Nut1960
02-06-2009, 09:15 PM
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your thoughts on throttle servos, I know servos are always a passionate topic and generally stir up a lot of discussion.

I'll go with the HS-422, the price certainly is good compared to others.:)

Cheers,
Kelvin

Peter
03-06-2009, 10:13 AM
Kelvin , are you aware of the heli day at PRAM's on the 14th ? looks like being a good time!

Wing_Nut1960
04-06-2009, 10:00 PM
Thanks Peter for letting me know, :thumb:
I just checked it out on-line while I was talking to Claus. I haven't been to the PRAM's club before so it might be a good chance to go and have a look.
Do you have to contact anyone to fly or can you just turn up on the day and show your membership card?

I put the fuel pump back on the Rappy motor, as even though I checked out all the fuel tanks and lines and replaced the clunk lines, the motor still ran a bit rough on the last 5% of the fuel tank. I can now fly right into the header tank without issues. I've had to tinker a bit with the tuning after putting the pump back on so it will probably still need some further fine tuning.

See you at PRAM's if I manage to get there.

Cheers Kelvin :)

Peter
04-06-2009, 10:33 PM
PRAM's day is just turn up , with your MAAA card , and have fun! costs $10 too , but theres some goodies in the pilots draw ....


Seems most clubs like to profit from visitors these days .....


Pleased the R90 is getting better . Hows Claus going with the changes we made to his heli ?

Wing_Nut1960
05-06-2009, 07:36 PM
Cheers Peter for the info,
Claus is going OK, he was initially a bit concerned but now has had a bit of time on the sticks so is getting used to the new settings. He loves the higher head speed and has been practicing autos and is doing really well, I'll now need to pull my finger out.
He had a slight incident last Sunday at the end of the auto and the heli neally tipped over, he was lucky and sustained minimal damage, main shaft, feathering spindle, blades and tail boom. The boom was only slight as were the blades and easily repaired. I think he's probably up and running again already.

See you next Sunday at PRAM's:thumb:

Peter
05-06-2009, 10:07 PM
everyone's happy, love it!! :)

Sure will catch up at PRAMS :thumb::thumb:

Wing_Nut1960
08-06-2009, 06:43 PM
Hi Peter,
Question relating to the position of the tail servo on the Spectra G, does it hang off the tail as most others do?
Would it come in contact with any oil from the motor?
The JR 8900G which I intend to use isn't warranted for nitro use as they don't have oil seals. I am just trying to determine if using this servo will be a problem on the Spectra G.

Cheers
Kelvin

Peter
08-06-2009, 08:52 PM
It's well hidden under the canopy , but its a Gasser , theres NO OILY EXHAUST.....

Just lots of fun ..

( I did it again today , the fun bit I mean !)

Wing_Nut1960
11-06-2009, 01:47 PM
Hi Peter, :):)
I've been trying to source suitable Servo Savers/Retainers for the Spectra G, but unfortunately I don't really know what their proper name is or what they look like, so this makes it difficult.
Are you able to point me in the right direction with a name, product code, company or link to something so that I can purchase.

Cheers
Kelvin

Peter
11-06-2009, 02:31 PM
Here ya go ..

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=MA115-88

order them when you order the kit, the JR set has M3 threads on the brass pivot bolts , that fits the latest pootaba etc servos too ...

Lyle at www.rcheliworld.com.au will have em as well , but that site's not as up to date....

Wing_Nut1960
12-06-2009, 11:59 AM
Thanks as always Peter, :thumb:
You're a wealth of information which is highly appreciated by me and I'm sure by many other Heli enthusiasts that use this site.
I'm just in the process of ordering the Exhaust restrictor, JR8900G servo and a couple of other items for the Spectra G from Ron Lund so this works out well.

I currently have the cyclic servos in transit and the Jewel R/C Generator and Spectra fittings, so I'm getting close to getting all the components together.

The heli itself will be my 50th Birthday present from my wife, unfortunately that's not until the end of next year, so I have a long wait ahead unless I can twist her arm a bit. That being said I'm a patient man, at least I get the motor and exhaust this birthday so I can look at it for 12 months in anticipation.

I can't complain I have plenty of other helis to fly in the inteirm and of course improve my flying skills.

I'm sure when it comes to the build I will be looking for any build tips for the Spectra G that you have stored away.

See you on Sunday!
Cheers,
Kelvin

r2160
15-06-2009, 11:11 AM
Without trying to usurp the master, you should order 119-88.

This is the carbon version that will look pretty on your spectra. The 115- is the g10 version.

cheers
Glenn

Wing_Nut1960
15-06-2009, 06:03 PM
Cheers Glenn,
Thanks for the information, do you keep all these part numbers in your head?
RCHeliWorld is out of stock according to the website so I've tacked it onto my order from another supplier and they only have the ones Peter suggested, so I'll have to live with G-10.

Kind Regards,
Kelvin

Peter
15-06-2009, 06:41 PM
don't believe that website! it's being worked on ....


BTW thanks , Glennie, but I thought you'd have forgotten all those numbers by now!!!

r2160
16-06-2009, 12:38 AM
How could I possibly ever forget lol, and I am kind of helping with the update of the website . . . Apparently I have this thing with numbers and I don't actually remember the last time I didn't know one. Pretty disturbing.

In fact, I am even putting some on my little bus.

Had a little hiccup on the weekend, bloody switch harness

luv
glenni